I started out in my career working for a cardiologist at Harvard Medical School, Herbert Benson, who did the physiological measurements of transcendental meditators showing that their blood pressure could be lowered and their heart beat slowed and their carbon dioxide output diminished, you know? So, I understand the value Of, oh, this is a real thing. Science tells us it's a real thing, but my experience of going on. My first couple of Silent meditation Retreats, which you know a week or 10 days of not talking, not making eye contact and just looking at my own internal experience. That's what showed me that meditation was a real thing. experientially. Oh, my mind is capable of more than just my usual thoughts, you know, there's a whole vast, both interior and external experience that I have never allowed myself. That is opening up. science if it was going to try to document that might be able to measure my heartbeat, but it couldn't get close to the Poetics of the experience. You know
If science can't find it? How would you describe what it is that science can't find?
Love
in meditation?
Yeah, and meditation like it. The great revelation that can come out of meditation is, Oh, you start to experience yourself as a loving being.
Why do you think that is,
I don't know, I think, because we are fundamentally loving beings. And you know, That's our true nature.
The Ezra Klein Show July 11, 2025
Start around 15 minutes
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